EP 37: Strong Men in Dangerous Times – Jim Ramos

Dean Brenton:  [00:00:06] Well welcome to the Impactus podcast, I’m Dean Brenton. We are here to equip you as men with a life of purpose and Godly impact. Today’s conversation is going to be a great one, especially if you’re a men’s ministry leader and you want to be more effective in understanding how to lead or reach men, or if you’re just a guy who wants to be a Godly man. I am privileged and blessed today to have Jim Ramos with me. Jim’s a best-selling author, speaker, founder of Men in the Arena, a Christian ministry focused on equipping men to honour God and their family, church and community. The Ministry’s reached hundreds of thousands of men around the world through the Men in the Arena Facebook forum, the podcasts, equipping, eBlast, I think that go out.

                          And you’re also, Jim, an author. New books coming out, including Field Guide, Strong Men series, and most recently – or the one we’ll talk a little bit about today – Strong Men, Dangerous Times. Great title for the day we live in. You live in Oregon with your wife Shanna and I understand you love to hunt with your adult sons. You enjoy fitness, tropical vacations, and listening to men share stories over a dark-roast Americano. So that last point won huge, huge favour with me.

Jim Ramos:       [00:01:28] I love it.

Dean Brenton:  [00:01:28] [cross-talk]

Jim Ramos:       [00:01:29] I just did that a half an hour ago with a guy.

Dean Brenton:  [00:01:33] Fantastic. Jim, thank you for joining us.

Jim Ramos:       [00:01:36] It’s a pleasure to be on the show, man. I am so excited, Dean, and hopefully I’ve got something that can help somebody out there so I’m ready to rock ‘n roll.

Dean Brenton:  [00:01:44] Well let’s do this. So tell me about the latest book, or the one that we’re going to talk about today, Strong Men Dangerous Times. What really inspired you to right the book?

Jim Ramos:       [00:01:53] Yeah, that’s the book right there.

Dean Brenton:  [00:01:56] There.

Jim Ramos:       [00:01:57] Right there. Yeah, so it’s really int4eresting. So the book initially, when I first wrote the book it was under the title, The Man Card. And the reason why I’d named it The Man Card was because I believe men don’t know who they are, and so we wanted to define manhood for them and give them a target to shoot at. And as we wrote the book, as we processed the times that we are living in we decided to change the title to Strong Men Dangerous Times because honestly, it is a dangerous time in this world to be a man. Manhood, masculinity is under attack. It’s called toxic, and the people calling masculinity toxic clearly don’t understand what the world masculinity means. Because the simple definition in the dictionary, doing things that – doing manly things or things pertaining to manhood, that definition alone means a man, a true man is never toxic. A male is toxic.

                          And so we wanted to separate what a male is versus what a man is. We also wanted to walk through several myths of manhood that men grow up believing. And then the majority of the book is actually focused on the five essentials of manhood so guys can realize this is what a man is, this is what a man does, and in these days when people are attacking masculinity, men can know who they are and stand up and resist those secular forces trying to push them into compliance.

Dean Brenton:  [00:03:30] That’s great, and I totally agree. Like never more needed, that kind of voice and that kind of clarity and what it means to be a Godly man. So you talked about five essentials, and without stealing the thunder of the book, because it’s a great read and the guys need to get their hands on it, will you talk about –

Jim Ramos:       [00:03:44] Thank you.

Dean Brenton:  [00:03:45] Protecting integrity, fighting apathy, pursuing God passionately, leading courageously and finishing strong – was there one of those that kind of was, I don’t know, more important to you or just that had more, that stood out to you more than another or were they kind of all like, “These are the five essentials?”

Jim Ramos:       [00:04:03] Well it’s really interesting. Briefly, all this – so I’m a visual guy like most men, so the book is broken into a mountain motif. So the trailhead of the mountain is protecting integrity. That’s where, that’s a foundational component of manhood. And then as you climb, you climb this mountain and it’s fighting apathy. You’re fighting against the pressures of the life and the resistance in those who oppose manhood, Biblical masculinity. The summit or apex of manhood is pursuing God passionately. That’s really when a man understands what it means to walk in his best version.

                          The backside of the dissent, where men tend to lean back and relax, is leaning courageously. So we’re calling men to not rely on their pastors and their youth and children’s directors to disciple their children, but those people are icing on the cake because they are the ones that God has called to lead.

                          And then the last one is finishing strong. And that one is about, it’s an answer to the question, “Why do some men finish wrong and others finish strong?” You know, why do some men finish with a question mark or an ellipsis or a comma when other men finish with a war-cry and a scream like Jesus did in John 19:30? It is finished with an exclamation mark. And so the one to me that – well they’re all so important to manhood – but I think the one most overlooked by men today is fighting apathy. So when you look at the word apathy in the dictionary it’s indifference, impassivity. It’s an inability to feel or care about the things that man needs to care about.

                          And one of the things that I’ve walked away with is that I believe that apathy is the greatest battle a man will ever fight. Now I know Stephen Arterburn would disagree because he wrote Every Man’s Battle, which is a phenomenal book. But I would say that the greatest battle is before that; it’s apathy. It’s that man saying, “I will fight against lust in my life. I will fight against being anonymous in my church. I will fight against a society that tells me that I am not a spiritual leader, that I am not needed. I will fight against all of these lies and I will become a better father. I will love one woman all of my life.” These are things that our society does not look up on anymore. They look down on.

                          And so our goal is for guys to go, “You know what? I’m not going to sit here and take this anymore. I’m going to fight. I’m going to fight so that I maintain feeling” – so I’ve got a knife. If I open this knife and if I cut away the calluses on my hand, it’s a really cool effect and people go, “Ooh, “Ahh, “Ahh,” but I don’t feel a thing. There’s no feeling in the callus. The callus is hardened skin over time because the hands have learned to adapt to constant friction, and so in doing so they’ve created this layer of unfeeling to protect the hand. Which is really good for the hand, but if it’s over the heart a man stops feeling for the things that he should care deeply about, like his wife, his children, his integrity and his church. Over and over again we see this. So that’s why to me, fighting apathy, if we can just get guys to see that and to wake up, it’ll change the culture.

Dean Brenton:  [00:07:31] That’s so good. And yeah, it really resonates, like that whole fight again apathy. And you wrote a lot about it. I’m just struck by how significant that is and how prevalent it is in our culture today. What happens when a guy forms those calluses and kind of leans into that apathy? What evidence is in their lives? What takes place?

Jim Ramos:       [00:07:57] Ho, man. Well, our organization is called Men in the Arena, because we’re calling men out of the anonymous bleachers and into the battle, into the arena. And so I think fighting apathy is the greatest battle a man will fight, but I think the greatest sin of man – when I mean man I mean masculine, masculine males, manhood. The greatest sin of masculinity is anonymity. When a man is anonymous, when children don’t know the name of their dad, when children don’t see their dads – statistically 50% won’t see a divorced dad for over a year. When children don’t know their dad’s not engaged, when children have a dad who’s on the couch after work and not engaging with the kids, you know, this is an apathetic man. When a man is apathetic, the church leaders don’t know his name because he either doesn’t attend or he’s so irregular and unknown he doesn’t make a difference, communities don’t know who he is, he is unknown. He is anonymous.

                          And I believe that in tremendous humility – not pride, humility – a man says, “Put me on display, Lord.” And God puts that man on display so that that man can put Jesus on display. So I think a lot of times we hide behind anonymity as, “Oh, it’s humility.” No, that’s pride. And when you’re refusing to be known and seen, that’s a pride thing. So we’re asking guys to in humility, you know, kind of – C. S. Lewis said, “Humility is not thinking less of yourself. It’s thinking of yourself less.” And that’s what we’re asking men to do. We’re saying stop thinking about yourself and think about others, and think about putting Jesus on display as he puts your life on display. And so that’s really what we’re talking about here. That guy who refuses to fight apathy, he becomes anonymous in his own story.

Dean Brenton:  [00:09:54] Wow, that’s powerful.

Jim Ramos:       [00:09:56] Yeah.

Dean Brenton:  [00:09:57] So one of the ways that really, I know really counteracts the apathy and the callousness that happens is discipleship and the word, –

Jim Ramos:       [00:10:05] Oh yeah.

Dean Brenton:  [00:10:05] And just that thriving in God’s presence every day. You quote the book No Man Left Behind; you say, “We can say with confidence that we have never known about a man whose life has changed in any significant way apart from regular study of God’s word.” Tell me about the importance of that.

Jim Ramos:       [00:10:25] Yeah, so that’s a quote from Patrick Morley, David Delk and Brett Clemmer. Brett is the President now of Man in the Mirror. He took it over from Pat Morley. Pat Morley wrote a book a couple of years ago called The Christian Man, and in that book he stated that 12 out of 100 men in churches – so in the church 12 out of 100 men are involved in some kind of Bible study or small group, just 12. So where are the other – my math, I’m not a great mathematician – where are the other 88? They’re not engaged in discipleship. And I believe that those 88 guys are also the guys that are mostly anonymous. I believe that understanding the word of God, obeying the word of God, and practising are game-changers.

                          You know, I was in Mississippi, Greenville, Mississippi this last weekend in the Delta Region, which is one of the poorest regions in our country, and I got to lead A Guide to the Lord. A firefighter, a group of firefighters came into this event and this 20 year-old firefighter expressed he had a void in his life and he needed to trust Jesus. So I started laying out the Gospel and I got to trusting Jesus. And he said, “Man, I don’t under this. I don’t trust anybody.”

                          Well his Fire Chief is a Christian. I said, “Let me ask you this. Do you trust your Chief?” He goes, “Oh, I trust my Chief, oh.” He got really serious; “Oh man.” I go what does it mean to trust the Chief?” He goes, “Well, I just do what he tells me. Whatever he tells me I do.” He’s like a father figure to him. I go, “So you trust him.” I said, “What happens if you don’t trust him?” “I die.” What happens if you do trust him?” “I live.” And I said, “Bro, that’s – you understand Christianity as a firefighter better than most Christians, because Christianity is trusting the Chief.” What’s what it is!

Dean Brenton:  [00:12:17] Wow.

Jim Ramos:       [00:12:18] And so when men, Christian men, decide to transcend the title Christian and move into this trusting, obedient, faithful relationship with Jesus, it’s a game-changer.

Dean Brenton:  [00:12:33] Wow, that’s good. You also talk and – I love the illustration you have in the book around Mount Everest that –

Jim Ramos:       [00:12:40] Yes.

Dean Brenton:  [00:12:40]  It – you know, a lot of guys aspire to reach the summit but you talk about the fact that a lot of guys fall on the way down. Like it’s counter-intuitive and so many deaths happen on Mount Everest on the way down from the summit. What does that mean for guys and their spiritual lives and what God has called them into?

Jim Ramos:       [00:13:02] Yeah, and that’s the thing that people don’t understand. More people die every year on Everest on the descent than the ascent, and there’s a lot of reasons for it, right? Pride, ignorance, not listening to the guide and the hard turnaround time. But one of the things that I’ve noticed, and I’m a hunter so I’m often in the hills packing an animal out of the hills on my back, and I’ve learned that when you lean into the mountain; so you lean into the mountain. So you lean into the mountain, so now that you’re leaning and you’re in a perpendicular line with the mountain and you’re looking downhill with weight on your back, it’s really a scary place to be.

                          But what happens is your boots now have traction. But when you lean back and take the comfortable approach, you now move – your body leans back into the mountain but you lose traction. You fall all over the place. And so what men need to do is they need to lean into the descent. And so that’s my great allegory for when it comes to spiritual leadership we need to lean into leading our wife and our children and our communities, and getting the traction there instead of leaning back and say, “Hey listen, I attend a great church. The pastor will disciple my wife, the children’s pastor will disciple my kids, the youth pastor will disciple my children, my teenagers.”

                          Or how about this one? I don’t know about you kinds in Canada but in America the schools will educate my children. Holy Cow! That’s a horrible thing to say. Because I’ll tell you what, the things that are coming out of our public schools – and I was a public school guy, my dad was a public school teacher, my children attended public school; I love public schools – but some of the things being taught at the public schools in America are completely antithetical to Christianity. So if I have the mentality that it’s their job to take care of my children and to educate and disciple, I’m in trouble. As a man, it’s my job. The grunt of the leadership impact is on my shoulders. That’s the mantle God has given me to carry, and I need to oversee that mantle. Yes, I’ll send my kids to school. Yes, I’ll send them to church. But I am ultimately responsible, along with my wife, I guess me and my wife, of doing that.

Dean Brenton:  [00:15:18] Well that’s good. You also quote Kierkegaard at one point in the book as well. I love this quote, “But life can only be understood backwards, but it must be lived forwards.” Like unpack that for us a little it

Jim Ramos:       [00:15:30] That’s, I forgot about that quote, yeah. And there’s a poem, one of my favourite poems and I can’t remember the author now, and I think it’s also in the book. It says “Though you can’t go back and make a brand-new start my friend, everyone can start now and make a brand-new end.” And here’s the hard part: You know, all of us as men are on different journeys spiritually. Some of the mean may listen to this podcast, may not have actually given their lives fully to Jesus. Some of have been walking with Jesus for 50 years. We’re all at a different place.

                          I have a guy coming on my podcasts in a month, in a couple months, probably next month. He was a porn star, now he’s a pastor. I mean how does that happen?! You know, so what I’m saying is you can go from one to the other but we’re all on a journey in life. And so for a man to allow his journey towards his best version in Christ to be hindered because of past sin or unforgiveness, he needs to let that go. You know, Romans A:1 says, “For there is no longer any condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.” And Romans 12 says, “Therefore, because since we were surrounded by such a cloud of witnesses, let us throw off anything that hinders the sin that so easily entangles it. Run with perseverance the face marked out for us.”

                          And I’ll tell you what, I’m a big guy, Dean, and the greatest hindrance to me climbing a mountain is my gluteus maximus. It’s my own weight! It’s the extra baggage and the weight I’m carrying! And so for men they need to let that go. Your past is your past; focus on Jesus. You know, Paul said, “Forgetting what is” – Philippians Chapter 3 – “Forgetting what is behind me, I press on to the goal.”

Dean Brenton:  [00:17:17] Yeah, good.

Jim Ramos:       [00:17:18] And so that’s what we’re talking about. I think guys, you’ve got to let go of the guilt, let go of the shame, and to focus on Jesus. Isn’t that the answer to everything? [laughs]

Dean Brenton:  [00:17:26] Oh, that is the answer, that is the answer. This is good, this is good. I kind of set you up for this question now because you don’t just talk about this or preach it, you’ve lived this. I mean that’s your journey. So tell me a little bit about your journey from where you were to leading a significant ministry to men. And also along the way you had this little intersection with Promise Keepers, –

Jim Ramos:       [00:17:52] Yeah!

Dean Brenton:  [00:17:52] Where – Promise Keepers Canada – but it really was an impactful moment. Tell us a little about your journey into where you are today.

Jim Ramos:       [00:17:59] Yeah, so I played football, American football – well you guys play football in Canada too; I like Canada – Santa Clara University, and I had to give my life to Jesus, accepted Christ at 18 by my football coach. And I went away to school not understanding what it meant to be a follower of Christ and had a series of injuries, starting with a knee surgery. Then I was subsequently overdosed by the anesthesiologist. I went Code Blue, I was blind for three days in ICU from the – everything swelled up. And in ICU God spoke to me and he said, “I want you to make a difference in the lives of teens.”

                          And so that was a call to ministry, the first time I’d ever heard God’s voice. I wasn’t living for Jesus. I had accept Jesus but I wasn’t living for him. And it was a series, several years later that I gave my life to Christ. That picture here is the cover program of one of our football magazines, and in that program I have a brace on my left arm, I have a brace on my – or right arm – I have a brace on my left leg. And that game I broke my leg. So I had a series of very serious injuries that led to a very severe neck injury and my career was over. But being 22 and invincible I made a deal with God to have one more year of football. He gave it to me and then reclaimed my life. I was I ministry like six months later.

                          And so I entered a Youth for Christ campus life as a director, and that’s where I met my beautiful wife. We were married nine months after we started dating. I was a 28 year-old pastor, football coach, ex-football player. I looked like a man, I acted like a man – or I talked like a man – I had a manly position. But looking back at my time with my wife, from 26 to 28 I would say she married a boy. She married a male. I was very, very selfish. I thought marriage was about me. You know, take care of me, my needs, I do what I want. And my marriage was a mess; I hated my wife, hated her. I tell people I married an angel, woke up with Satan. [laughs] She tells people she married her dream guy and woke up in a nightmare. And it was hard.

                          And then in 1995 I went to a Promise Keepers gathering in the L.A. Coliseum, and it was hot that day. And I remember this Black preacher got up and he’s wearing this robe. I remember going, “Man, he must be dying.” He’s a Black dude, the suns on his face, he’s wearing a robe. He must be sweating like crazy. And he just begins his sermon and he screams. He starts screaming. Like he said this at least 50 times: “You’ve gotta out-love and out-serve your wife!” I’m pretty sure that’s all he had written on his notes, “You’ve gotta out-love and out-serve your wife!” And I was sitting there going, “Man, this guy, I’m not connecting with this guy at all. I mean I am not connecting with this guy.”

                          Well about half-way through his sermon the Holy Spirit spoke to me. He spoke to me a sentence that changed my life forever, and here is the sentence: “Jim, you need to out-love and out-serve your wife.” [laughs] So I was like, “Man, I can’t believe you know God. You spoke to me, wow!” So I went back and with angry eyes I told my wife, “I’m going to out-love and out-serve you whether you like it or not, you know!” I was so angry because I didn’t like her.

                          So I started making her coffee every morning, I started out-loving her, out-serving her. You know, it’s a miraculous thing, Dean. My marriage turned around. My wife began serving and taking care of me. I began serving and loving her. When I was 28 years old in L.A. Coliseum in 1995 Promise Keepers event, that is the day I became a man. And when a man gets it, everyone wins. And that was the day my wife will tell you, “That was the day my husband finally got it.” And we’re getting ready in a couple of months to celebrate our 30^th anniversary married together. And it all goes back to that Promise Keepers event where god spoke to me through the strangest medium, you know? A Black preacher in a flow white robe, and I wish I could shake that guy’s hand and give him a hug and say, “Listen man, you changed my life.” I don’t even know who it was; I don’t know his name.

Dean Brenton:  [00:22:12] Wow.

Jim Ramos:       [00:22:13] But it was a real game-changer for me. And I love Promise Keepers because of it.

Dean Brenton:  [00:22:18] That’s so cool. What a great message too  as we – you know, this time of year as well, out-love, out-serve your wife.

Jim Ramos:       [00:22:24] Yeah.

Dean Brenton:  [00:22:25] Well you’ve devoted your life to Ministry to Men and formed an incredible ministry. So you talk about as well in the book like, the importance of the fact that strong men don’t travel alone is one of the lines you do.

Jim Ramos:       [00:22:39] Yeah.

Dean Brenton:  [00:22:40] So what’s the importance today of Men’s Ministry?

Jim Ramos:       [00:22:44] Well I’ll tell you what. It’s really simple. I’ll tell you a story that I’m not, I’m not proud of this story but I’ll tell it anyway. I was in the Wyoming wilderness in 2001 with four other buddies, and we were hunting mule deer up there. And we went for a hike. We had a camp way up high in the high mountain wilderness and we had a camp down low. We decided to make a – we’d had horses, which I refuse to ride horses. I just was walking my horse. We had horses; we took these horses up for this evening hunt. Well the two guys, two of their horses dropped from exhaustion and since I wasn’t riding one we just walked mine in, you know, with the saddles of the other horses on my horse’s saddle.

                          We get to the high mountain camp and we’re like, “We have to spend the night here, we’ve got two horses that aren’t in a good place.” So we spend the night. The problem is I did not have warm-weather gear, and about 11:00 o’clock at night I was freezing, shivering uncontrollably. And these two buddies of mine put me in the middle of the – they unfolded their sleeping bags, put them all over so we all had, were on the same sleeping bag on the top and the bottom. And these guys scooted really close to me and basically spooned me in the Wyoming wilderness. Which normally that’s a man-law violation.

                          But I learned something. I learned something that night that I need – I know, it’s kind of sad, right? But I learned something that night, that I need to have guys that when I’m in trouble, they will do anything to take care of me. In fact in Mark, Chapter 2 we read about the paralytic being healed. You know, the paralytic’s name is never mentioned; he’s anonymous in his own story. And I propose that it isn’t his story because Jesus, the Bible says Jesus, when he saw their faith, he healed this guy.

                          And I believe this story is about this band of brothers. And I’ll tell you what. There is so much power in a man who doesn’t have to stand alone. In Acts, Chapter 2 I think it’s Verse 22, we see Peter giving his first sermon, 3,000-plus get saved. And it says, “And Peter standing with the 11.” That phrase is so important. And so guys, who are you standing with? Are you part of the 88 who stand alone in churches? You have to get into a small group. You have to get plugged in with a group of guys that have your back. I mean I’m just – of all the things we do in our ministry, our number-one goal Dean, is then to drive guys to join a small group. Because that is the game-changer.

Dean Brenton:  [00:25:10] That’s good, that’s good.

Jim Ramos:       [00:25:13] Yeah.

Dean Brenton:  [00:25:14] What’s the Lord laying on your heart most recently for the guys out there that you’re ministering to?

Jim Ramos:       [00:25:21] I’ll tell you what. It’s funny. We developed something last year called our National Team Captains. So we have a group of guys and then we’re calling them National Team Captains because we don’t have any international guys. So if you know any Canadians let me know. We’re plugging guys into small groups via Zoom because we have a huge population of men involved in our ministry, whether it’s through the podcast that was downloaded in the 126 Nations or the 12,000 on the Forum, or whatever we have going on, the 17,000 on Instagram. These guys, a lot of these guys aren’t plugged in to churches. They either left the church through the pandemic or they’ve never been plugged in, and they’re standing alone.

                          And I’ll be honest with you, Dean, they’re losing. They’re losing the battle. And so to win the battle I have to get these guys together with other men. If we can lock ‘em up and lock arms with other men, there’s so much more strength when that happens, so much more strength when that happens. And so that really is my heart, is we need to plug men into groups. It’s a game-changer.

Dean Brenton:  [00:26:26] That’s good. So after all you’ve written and you’re still writing, all your ministry, if you had one thing to say to the guys in Canada today or even beyond the borders of Canada through the Ministry of Impactus, what would you say to them today as a challenge?

Jim Ramos:       [00:26:46] Well I would say this: I’m a big guy who lifts weights and played football and I kill animals and all those things. But I have friends who drive Priuses, they love to pet their kitty-cat, they’ve got a little lap-dog they drive in their truck. I mean – and people ask me, “Hey Jim, does being a man mean looking like you?” And my answer is, “Heck no.” Men come in all shapes and sizes. Men come in all political backgrounds, men drive all sorts of different cars, men are all sorts of different colours. But here’s what I would say to my Canadian brothers: “At the end of day a man is as a man does. So do manly things. Protect integrity, fight apathy, pursue God passionately, lead courageously and finish it strong.”

                          Your masculinity is going to be defined on what you do and not how you look. And that is just so important for us as men to understand that. Don’t try to be somebody you’re not. Be the best version of you for the glory of God and do the things that men do.

Dean Brenton:  [00:27:59] That’s good. And lastly, for the men’s leader out there who’s facing some discouragement, this has been a hard season, the guys are scattered. They’re not sure if they can keep going. Speak a word of encouragement to the men’s leaders out there who really feel the call of God but still just, you know, they’re weighed down by this moment.

Jim Ramos:       [00:28:19] Well I would say – you know, I sit on the Board of Directors for the National Coalition of Ministries to Men and there’s 150 churches and church leaders and men’s ministry leaders, and we meet every other Wednesday to encourage one another via Zoom. I would say join a group like that. Or if Promise Keepers has any kind of group, join a collaboration of men who will encourage you because they’re doing the same thing. You know, church denominations do that that with their pastors. Men’s ministry leaders need to do that because a great men’s ministry, a solid church men’s ministry is going to give 1% of the budget to men’s ministry. Most of them don’t give anything. So that guy does not have a lot of encouragement financially, or even pastorally oftentimes and he feels alone. And I would say that guy has to plug in to collaboration of other men who are doing what he’s doing to encourage him.

Dean Brenton:  [00:29:15] That’s really good. And one of the things we have really been pushing out recently is through our networks around Canada and beyond our borders actually, just to actually do that build community, build energy and new ministry opportunities. So that’s a great word. Where can people keep up with you and tell us about any new things that are coming down the pipes that we should be aware of.

Jim Ramos:       [00:29:39] I would say first of all, you can follow me if you want but I would prefer you follow the Ministry. Everything I do goes on to the Ministry, so on Instagram we’re themeninthearena. Everything else we’re meninthearena. On our website – I’ll offer this to your men – on our website I’ve got a beautiful book called Tell Them: What Great Fathers Tell Their Sons and Daughters that’s 208 thoughts. And I wrote this as a father to my children, things I want to tell my kids, with meditation questions and a Bible verse to reflect on. That is a really great resource for you guys.

                          And the thing I’m really excited about is, over this shoulder I’ve got a book coming out called Guts and Manhood: The Four Irrefutable Attributes of Courage. And it’s a word study I did through the Book of Courage. Every time the word was mentioned in the Bible, and after unpacking it I realized, man, there are four things about courage that are very distinct and unique and nobody tells you about them. You know, courage is not a commandment. It’s not one of the Mosaic Laws, it’s not a spiritual gift, it’s not a fruit of the spirit. But why is courage something that men are so passionate about? And I unpack that in the book. It should be coming out in the next week or two.

Dean Brenton:  [00:30:51] Oh, that’s fantastic. Jim, want to say a huge thank you for taking time to be with us today. And guys, make sure you follow Men in the Arena –

Jim Ramos:       [00:31:00] Thank you.

Dean Brenton:  [00:31:01] And stay in touch, Jim, with us and we hope to hear more of what God is doing through you. And again, thanks, it’s been a delight.

Jim Ramos:       [00:31:11]  Absolutely. Thanks so much, Dean. I’m honoured that you had me on and humbled as well.

Dean Brenton:  [00:31:15] Alright, God bless.

Jim Ramos:       [00:31:16] You too, man.

Dean Brenton:  [00:31:18] Thanks for listening to the Impactus Podcast. To learn more about living a life of purpose and Godly impact, check out impactus.org.